Tell us about the "food and eating well" chair at the Fondation Rennes 1

The raison d'être of this chair is to bring together the points of view of scientists and eaters. It's time to work on the sociology of food. On the one hand, we note a lack of acceptability with regard to scientific consensus. One example is cholesterol, often considered to be enemy number 1 within the body, but classified for several decades by experts as a factor of little importance.

On the other hand, I'm struck by the contradictions between the eco-vegetarian convictions and the habits of the 18-34 generation, who are by far the biggest consumers of meat; not in the form of Grandma's entrecôte, but of nuggets, burgers, pizzas... So much so that beef consumption, which had been falling steadily for 25 years, has risen again in 2019. This proves that classic qualitative survey methods are completely unreliable. In panels, consumers say they want to eat less meat, but quality meat. In reality, they eat more, and almost exclusively low-quality minced meat. That's why we have to take usage into account.

Has the health crisis reinforced your belief in the need to improve access to good food?

During the health crisis, it became clear very early on that people were not dying from the virus, but from excess inflammation (the infamous cytokine storm that causes pulmonary oedema). This resonates with the widely shared scientific knowledge that what we eat influences our immunity. The inflammation mechanism is managed in our cells by two fatty acids, which are 100% dependent on what we eat: omega 6 in the virus attack phase, then omega 3 in the tissue repair phase and, above all, in stopping the inflammatory process.

"I'm talking about barrier feeding. But no media covered the subject at Covid 19".

Together with Inserm and Rennes University Hospital, we have written an article on this subject for a scientific journal. This is fundamental, because we can see that the long-awaited miracle drug or vaccine is not on the way. By demonstrating that barrier feeding is effective, and that by better nourishing the soil and people, we are able to avoid the disaster associated with this or any other epidemic, we are giving value to consent around the question: "is this good for me?"

But knowing is not enough to save lives... This knowledge must be shared and accepted, which is far from being the case.

"Within this chair, we're going to try to understand why people don't expect from food what they expect from social distancing, medicines or vaccines."

The French want to eat local, healthier produce, with better-paid producers and employees, without necessarily paying more. How can we resolve this paradox? 

Personally, I don't think the health crisis will change much, apart from a slight inflection in the major trends that were already in place. The agri-food world is above all marked by a price war the likes of which has rarely existed. Most distributors are anticipating a social crisis. And the search for quality has taken a back seat.

Contrary to widespread belief in agri-food marketing, consumers know what they're going to buy before they get to the shelves. It's essential to take an interest in the consumer's background, beliefs, habits... in other words, the sociology of the eater. We recruited an agricultural engineer, sociologist and anthropologist to the Chair. He conducted a series of interviews during the confinement period. What emerged was an exacerbation of behaviors, but no changes. People who liked to cook cooked more. Those who didn't liked to cook bought frozen food, canned food...

Why has the purchase of pasta taken off? With the closure of public catering facilities, pasta is the simplest and most consensual dish. The common thread is usage and the time available to prepare meals.

"I'm not sure that good intentions can stand up to the discrepancy between what people say and what they do, and above all to economic and usage constraints. The world after will not be very different from the world before."

Like Danone, are mission-driven companies the future? What skills will they need to mobilize?

I chaired the Valorial agrifood cluster for 8 years. It brings together academics and industrialists (2/3 from the agrifood sector) with a view to collaborative innovation, which makes it an excellent observation post. The players have the impression that they are doing things very well, and they are doing things better and better, but are increasingly criticized. The eater-producer relationship is more about confrontation than mediation.

It's hard to call yourself a mission-driven company just by saying: "I'm a good person, I save tons of CO2...". Transparency has to be measurable and understandable, but that's not enough, because other factors come into play. Consumers don't pay much attention to the nutriscore. The nutriscore generates distrust, because it is affixed to the packet by the manufacturer. On the contrary, although 80% of Yuka's score is based on the nutriscore, the fact that it's the consumer who scans and calculates the score changes perception and generates support.

We've included a digital component in the Chair because we believe it can reconnect people with the realities of the farming and agri-food worlds.

In L'Homnivore, food sociologist Claude Fischler explains that man is as much a neophile as he is a neophobe: he fears everything, but eats everything. For a long time, this paradox was resolved by tradition, as a way of protecting our health. Thirty years ago, he announced that, since traditions were being shattered, the angst of the homnivore would return with a vengeance.

Today, we have to deal with the anguish of the homnivore. There's no point in thinking in terms of "hard sciences", because there's a resistance to rationality. Despite considerable progress in terms of health and the environment, people are increasingly afraid of what they eat. For example, Yuka receives complaints because eggs from caged hens score well. Yet, in purely nutritional terms, there's no difference between an egg from a free-range or a cage-free hen.

""I eat, therefore I am" . Concerns about animal welfare, the food chain, producer remuneration... are all part and parcel of what people incorporate when they eat. I'm convinced that digital coupled with human sciences can reconcile all these dimensions."